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Autor da Semana Eduardo Spohr

Rapaz, você odeia o Henry James? Mas gente... o_O
ÓDIO eu não sentia por ele,era mais "desgosto" ódio eu senti depois de desistir de outra volta do parafuso e achar o livro uma "caca".me é meio vergonhoso até "desgostar" de um autor por isso mas lá vai... Henry James era extremamente arrogante(principalmente com outros escritores),briguento(arranjou muitas brigas com outros autores,claro não saíram na mão),mas eu poderia até ter "gostado" dele se ele não tivesse feito um comentário tão arrogante com dois autores dos quais eu sou muito fã(Fanboy),Charles Dickens e Edagar Allan Poe.
A Arte da Ficção dele é obrigatório pra quem estuda estruturas narrativas. Sinto que a relevância dele é aquela da transição do romance vitoriano para os experimentalismos modernistas. Sem ele, nada de Joyce ou Virginia Woolf.
eu vou dar outra chance para o henry,mas sem expectativas nem esperanças,quanto a esse "Arte da Ficção" pretendo dar uma olhada.
 
Mano, autores são assim mesmo: eles sempre vão querer bater uns nos outros. Já que não podem fazer isso, vão ficar espicaçando - tipo Mark Twain com Fenimore Cooper, George Eliot com várias escritoras inglesas. São humanos, ora essa! As pessoas brigam entre si. Vide que o tempo quis que hoje você encontrasse Henry James na estante ao lado de Dickens e Poe. :lol:
 
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Eu não odeio as obras do Henry James(exceto Outra volta no parafuso,que li e odiei) apenas odeio ele,ainda vou ler outros livros dele.
aproposito... você (e um monte de gente por aqui) não odeio o tal do Draccon pelos mesmos motivos?:coxinha:
 
mas que comentário foi esse do Henry James sobre Dickens e Poe?8O

O Henry James detonou o Dickens em uma resenha de Our Mutual Friend:

THE LIMITATIONS OF DICKENS

OUR Mutual Friend is, to our perception, the poorest of Mr. Dickens's works. And it is poor with the poverty not of momentary embarrassment, but of permanent exhaustion. It is wanting in inspiration. For the last ten years it has seemed to us that Mr. Dickens has been unmistakeably forcing himself. Bleak House was forced; Little Dorrit was laboured; the present work is dug out as with a spade and pickaxe.

Of course—to anticipate the usual argument—who but Dickens could have written it? Who, indeed? Who else would have established a lady in business in a novel on the admirably solid basis of her always putting on gloves and tying a handkerchief around her head in moments of grief, and of her habitually addressing her family with "Peace! hold!" It is needless to say that Mrs. Reginald Wilfer is first and last the occasion of considerable true humour. When, after conducting her daughter to Mrs. Boffin's carriage, in sight of all the envious neighbours, she is described as enjoying her triumph during the next quarter of an hour by airing herself on the doorstep "in a kind of splendidly serene trance," we laugh with as uncritical a laugh as could be desired of us. We pay the same tribute to her assertions, as she narrates the glories of the society she enjoyed at her father's table, that she has known as many as three copper-plate engravers exchanging the most exquisite sallies and retorts there at one time. But when to these we have added a dozen more happy examples of the humour which was exhaled from every line of Mr. Dickens's earlier writings, we shall have closed the list of the merits of the work before us.

To say that the conduct of the story, with all its complications, betrays a long-practised hand, is to pay no compliment worthy the author. If this were, indeed, a compliment, we should be inclined to carry it further, and congratulate him on his success in what we should call the manufacture of fiction; for in so doing we should express a feeling that has attended us throughout the book. Seldom, we reflected, had we read a book so intensely written, so little seen, known, or felt.

In all Mr. Dickens's works the fantastic has been his great resource; and while his fancy was lively and vigorous it accomplished great things. But the fantastic, when the fancy is dead, is a very poor business. The movement of Mr. Dickens's fancy in Mr. Wilfer and Mr. Boffin and Lady Tippins, and the Lammles and Miss Wren, and even in Eugene Wrayburn, is, to our mind, a movement lifeless, forced, mechanical. It is the letter of his old humour without the spirit. It is hardly too much to say that every character here put before us is a mere bundle of eccentricities, animated by no principle of nature whatever.

In former days there reigned in Mr. Dickens's extravagances a comparative consistency; they were exaggerated statements of types that really existed. We had, perhaps, never known a Newman Noggs, nor a Pecksniff, nor a Micawber; but we had known persons of whom these figures were but the strictly logical consummation. But among the grotesque creatures who occupy the pages before us, there is not one whom we can refer to as an existing type. In all Mr. Dickens's stories, indeed, the reader has been called upon, and has willingly consented, to accept a certain number of figures or creatures of pure fancy, for this was the author's poetry. He was, moreover, always repaid for his concession by a peculiar beauty or power in these exceptional characters. But he is now expected to make the same concession, with a very inadequate reward.

What do we get in return for accepting Miss Jenny Wren as a possible person? This young lady is the type of a certain class of characters of which Mr. Dickens has made a specialty, and with which he has been accustomed to draw alternate smiles and tears, according as he pressed one spring or another. But this is very cheap merriment and very cheap pathos. Miss Jenny Wren is a poor little dwarf, afflicted as she constantly reiterates, with a "bad back" and "queer legs," who makes doll's dresses, and is for ever pricking at those with whom she converses in the air, with her needle, and assuring them that she knows their "tricks and their manners." Like all Mr. Dickens's pathetic characters, she is a little monster; she is deformed, unhealthy, unnatural; she belongs to the troop of hunchbacks, imbeciles, and precocious children who have carried on the sentimental business in all Mr. Dickens's novels; the little Nells, the Smikes, the Paul Dombeys.

Mr. Dickens goes as far out of the way for his wicked people as he does for his good ones. Rogue Riderhood, indeed, in the present story, is villainous with a sufficiently natural villainy; he belongs to that quarter of society in which the author is most at his ease. But was there ever such wickedness as that of the Lammles and Mr. Fledgeby? Not that people have not been as mischievous as they; but was any one ever mischievous in that singular fashion? Did a couple of elegant swindlers ever take such particular pains to be aggressively inhuman?—for we can find no other word for the gratuitous distortions to which they are subjected. The word humanity strikes us as strangely discordant, in the midst of these pages; for, let us boldly declare it, there is no humanity here.

Humanity is nearer home than the Boffins, and the Lammles, and the Wilfers, and the Veneerings. It is in what men have in common with each other, and not what they have in distinction. The people just named have nothing in common with each other, except the fact that they have nothing in common with mankind at large. What a world were this world if the world of Our Mutual Friend were an honest reflection of it! But a community of eccentrics is impossible. Rules alone are consistent with each other; exceptions are inconsistent. Society is maintained by natural sense and natural feeling. We cannot conceive a society in which these principles are not in some manner represented. Where in these pages are the depositaries of that intelligence without which the movement of life would cease? Who represents nature?

Accepting half of Mr. Dickens's persons as intentionally grotesque, where are those examplars of sound humanity who should afford us the proper measure of their companions' variations? We ought not, in justice to the author, to seek them among his weaker—that is, his mere conventional—characters; in John Harmon, Lizzie Hexam, or Mortimer Lightwood; but we assuredly cannot find them among his stronger—that is, his artificial creations.

Suppose we take Eugene Wrayburn and Bradley Headstone. They occupy a half-way position between the habitual probable of nature and the habitual impossible of Mr. Dickens. A large portion of the story rests upon the enmity borne by Headstone to Wrayburn, both being in love with the same woman. Wrayburn is a gentleman, and Headstone is one of the people. Wrayburn is well-bred, careless, elegant, sceptical, and idle: Headstone is a high-tempered, hard-working, ambitious young schoolmaster. There lay in the opposition of these two characters a very good story. But the prime requisite was that they should be characters: Mr. Dickens, according to his usual plan, has made them simply figures, and between them the story that was to be, the story that should have been, has evaporated. Wrayburn lounges about with his hands in his pockets, smoking a cigar, and talking nonsense. Headstone strides about, clenching his fists and biting his lips and grasping his stick.

There is one scene in which Wrayburn chaffs the schoolmaster with easy insolence, while the latter writhes impotently under his well-bred sarcasm. This scene is very clever, but it is very insufficient. If the majority of readers were not so very timid in the use of words we should call it vulgar. By this we do not mean to indicate the conventional impropriety of two gentlemen exchanging lively personalities; we mean to emphasise the essentially small character of these personalities. In other words, the moment, dramatically, is great, while the author's conception is weak. The friction of two men, of two characters, of two passions, produces stronger sparks than Wrayburn's boyish repartees and Headstone's melodramatic commonplaces.

Such scenes as this are useful in fixing the limits of Mr. Dickens's insight. Insight is, perhaps, too strong a word; for we are convinced that it is one of the chief conditions of his genius not to see beneath the surface of things. If we might hazard a definition of his literary character, we should, accordingly, call him the greatest of superficial novelists. We are aware that this definition confines him to an inferior rank in the department of letters which he adorns; but we accept this consequence of our proposition. It were, in our opinion, an offence against humanity to place Mr. Dickens among the greatest novelists. For, to repeat what we have already intimated, he has created nothing but figure. He has added nothing to our understanding of human character. He is master of but two alternatives: he reconciles us to what is commonplace, and he reconciles us to what is odd. The value of the former service is questionable; and the manner in which Mr. Dickens performs it sometimes conveys a certain impression of charlatanism. The value of the latter service is incontestable, and here Mr. Dickens is an honest, an admirable artist.

But what is the condition of the truly great novelist? For him there are no alternatives, for him there are no oddities, for him there is nothing outside of humanity. He cannot shirk it; it imposes itself upon him. For him alone, therefore, there is a true and a false; for him alone, it is possible to be right, because it is possible to be wrong. Mr. Dickens is a great observer and a great humourist, but he is nothing of a philosopher.

Some people may hereupon say, so much the better; we say, so much the worse. For a novelist very soon has need of a little philosophy. In treating of Micawber, and Boffin, and Pickwick, et hoc genus omne, he can, indeed, dispense with it, for this—we say it with all deference—is not serious writing. But when he comes to tell the story of a passion, a story like that of Headstone and Wrayburn, he becomes a moralist as well as an artist. He must know man as well as men, and to know man is to be a philosopher.

The writer who knows men alone, if he have Mr. Dickens's humour and fancy, will give us figures and pictures for which we cannot be too grateful, for he will enlarge our knowledge of the world.But when he introduces men and women whose interest is preconceived to lie not in the poverty, the weakness, the drollery of their natures, but in their complete and unconscious subjection to ordinary and healthy human emotions, all his humour, all his fancy, will avail him nothing if, out of the fullness of his sympathy, he is unable to prosecute those generalisations in which alone consists the real greatness of a work of art.

This may sound like very subtle talk about a very simple matter. It is rather very simple talk about a very subtle matter. A story based upon those elementary passions in which alone we seek the true and final manifestation of character must be told in a spirit of intellectual superiority to those passions. That is, the author must understand what he is talking about. The perusal of a story so told is one of the most elevating experiences within the reach of the human mind. The perusal of a story which is not so told is infinitely depressing and unprofitable.

Fonte: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/37424/37424-h/37424-h.htm#THE_LIMITATIONS_OF_DICKENS

No entanto, ele gostava do Dickens antes:

In a letter to William James, dated "Cambridge Nov. 22d [1867]," Henry James, Jr., wrote: "Dickens has arrived for his readings. It is impossible to get tickets. At 7 o'clock A.M. on the first day of the sale there were two or three hundred at the office, and at 9, when I strolled up, nearly a thousand. So I don't expect to hear him" ( SL 17-19).

[...]
Nor does James in his autobiography offer much help. He does, however, include the following passage from one of his father's letters "which is of date of November '67": "What a charming impression of Dickens the other night at the Nortons' dinner! How innocent and honest and sweet he is maugre his fame! Fields was merely superb on the occasion, but Dickens was saintly" ( NS 252-53).

James met Charles Dickens on 26 November 1867, as determined by the following passage from the Journals of Henry Wadsworth Longfellow: "1867, Tuesday, November 26. Dined with Norton to meet Dickens. The other guests were Lowell, Mr. James, Miss Sedgwick, Miss Ashburner, and. . . . (Tucker 205).

At the time of the meeting Henry James was twenty-four years old, and Dickens was fifty-five. After dinner was over, James and his friend, Arthur Sedgwick, brother of the hostess, were brought in and introduced to the "tremendous guest." James added: "I saw the master -- nothing could be more evident -- in the light of an intense emotion, and I trembled, I remember, in every limb. . . . The confrontation was but of a moment; our introduction, my companion's and mine, once effected, . . . nothing followed, as it were, or happened." But it was a memory that James "always superlatively cherished" (NS 252-56). Fortunately, Longfellow recorded in his Journals the exact date of this "momentary meeting."

Fonte: https://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/henry_james_review/v017/17.2tucker.html

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Sobre o Poe, é engraçado que tanto ele quanto James concordassem na crítica a Dickens:

James found his key to the creation of the desired effect in a principle which Poe had set forth some sixty years earlier in his review ofBarnaby Rudge. Here Poe criticized Dickens for attempting to explain mysterious events so portentous that even the most horrific circumstances devised to account for them could not satisfy the reader. Dickens would have been well advised, Poe argued, to attempt no explanation whatever and allow the reader’s imagination to satisfy itself. “The skilful intimation of horror held out by the artist, produces an effect which will deprive his conclusion of all. These intimations — these dark hints of some uncertain evil — are often rhetorically praised as effective — but are only justly so praised where there is no denouement whatever — where the reader’s imagination is left to clear up the mystery for irself” (XI, 58).

In his creation of the figures Peter Quint and Miss Jessel, James fulfilled this dictum. In the preface, James concurred with Poe that a sense of “portentous evil” would be best evoked not by attributing to such figures any specific acts but by allowing the reader’s imagination to produce its own conception of the ultimate horror: “Only make the reader’s general vision of evil intense enough . . . and his own experience, his own imagination . . . will supply him quite sufficiently with all the particulars. Make him think the evil, make him think it for himself, and you are released from weak specifications” (p. 176).

Fonte: http://www.eapoe.org/pstudies/ps1980/p1980102.htm

O problema é que a crítica de Poe podia ser aplicada ao próprio autor, como James expõe:

Poe criticized Ainsworth’s novel Jack Sheppard for failing to make fantastic events either credible or interesting. “His marvels have a nakedness which repels. Nothing he relates seems either probable or possible, or of the slightest interest, whether the one or the other. His hero impresses us as a mere chimaera, with whom we have no earthly concern”

The principle implicit in Poe’s statement was developed by James in his preface to “The Altar of the Dead,” in which he warned against a direct, objective view of the fantastic and declared that “prodigies and marvels and miracles” were best rendered through the human consciousness that could interpret and respond to them. “The safest arena for the play of moving accidents and mighty mutations and strange encounters . . . is the field . . . rather of their second than of their first exhibition.” In themselves, supernatural marvels have no values. “Here prodigies, when they come straight, come with an effecr imperilled; they keep all their character, on the other hand, by looming through some other history — the indispensable history of somebody’s normal relation to something” (pp. 255, 256).

[...]

The failure to provide the “indispensable history” James observed in Poe’s The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym, the work admired by Prince Amerigo in The Golden Bowl as “a wonderful tale” and “a thing to show . . . what imagination Americans could have.“(22) In the preface to “The Altar of the Dead,” James cited the spectacle of the doomed Pym drifting towards the dazzling white curtain of fog as an example of a climax which failed to develop the essential human connections. “The moving accidents, coming straight . . . are immediate and flat, and the atrempt is all at the horrific in itself” (p. 256). Years before, James had characterized Poe’s interest in the supernatural as a “matter of adventurous fancy . . . [;] it was perfectly cold and had nothing to do with his moral life.“(23) Likewise, in James’ view, the climax of Pym was divorced from the moral life of the protagonist and so became an example of the “naked marvels” to which Poe himself objected.

Fonte: http://www.eapoe.org/pstudies/ps1980/p1980102.htm

Contudo, James foi duro com Poe ao falar sobre sua escrita, embora concedesse que o autor era criativo:

Many admirers of Edgar Allan Poe have bristled at young Henry James’s pronouncement that “An enthusiasm for Poe is the mark of a decidedly primitive stage of reflection.”(1) [...] Granted — something often forgotten — that James concedes a “very original genius [to] the author of the ‘Tales of Mystery”’[...]. Yet, when the final word is spoken and the greatest are separated from the merely original, James debunks Poe as a charlatan who never outgrew an immature addiction to flashy effects. As will be shown at some length, he also provoked a mild international incident which vividly illustrates how, even from the beginning, James’s observations were lifted from an interesting context, garbled, or completely misunderstood.

Fonte: http://www.eapoe.org/papers/psbbooks/pb19901x.htm

Como o autor do texto pontua no final do trecho acima, provavelmente houve um equívoco na visão final que as pessoas tem da avaliação de James:

For all the debate they have generated, James’s strictures on Poe are almost parenthetical remarks contained in an essay on Charles Baudelaire, originally published in the Nation (2 April 1876, pp. 279ff).

[...]

James [page 248:] can find no justification for Baudelaire in the argument that literature must be judged in terms of art rather than subject matter. For him, art is riches and most mature when it springs from the inner compulsion of a unified sensibility that embraces the whole gamut of experience; thus, a literature, which like Baudelaire’s, exempts itself from the moral sense — and James is not thinking about restrictive religious or ethical codes — proceeds from a limited consciousness and is necessarily puerile.

Despite his seemingly inexhaustible inventiveness, then, Poe is like Baudelaire obsessed by adventitious effects rather than the large central concerns of man. His works do not appeal to the serious mind because he disdains to incorporate into them the multiple aspects of reality. He prefers the thin fringe to the core, the outré and unnatural to the natural. In short, he refuses to put his whole self and life into the creative act. In words that might not be out of place in an Eliot essay, James asserts, “People of a large taste prefer rich works to poor ones” (p. 82). From this we can infer that Poe and Baudelaire are not quite adult writers because they childishly conceive of literature as splendid exhibitionism.

Porque anos depois...

[...] in The Golden Bowl, James’s last novel, the Italian Prince cites a “wonderful tale by Allan Poe” that illustrates the far reaches of the American imagination in its evocation of a “thickness of white air that was a dazzling curtain of light, concealing as darkness conceals.”(5) If the Prince could read into The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym an instance of the American imagination at its most “impenetrable,” it may be deduced that James belatedly arrived at a more favorable appraisal of Poe than he had expressed in 1876.

Yet, James saw fit to include his essay on Baudelaire in French Poets and Novelists in 1878 without modifying his condescension to Poe. In addition, he was only slightly kinder when in 1879 he pronounced Poe “a man of genius” whose “intelligence was frequently great,” only to castigate his critical judgments as “pretentious, spiteful, and vulgar.”

Como mencionado no outro texto acima:

For what it is worth, I should like to speculate on why James perpetually downgraded Poe’s artistry. First, in spite of subterranean similarities, the two writers seem to be concerned with basically different concepts of reality. Unlike James who imported terror and evil into drawing rooms and well-mannered country gardens, Poe seeks to know the self through its relation to — perhaps confrontation with — what he regarded as elemental and universal forces. He wanted to know God and man’s place in the eternal scheme and lacked James’s almost wholly secular concern with the minutiae of contemporary social relations. Poe’s purpose requires the invention of a fictional world reflecting in its enigmatic manifestations the ultimate mystery of transcendent reality; he revels in singularly dreary tracts of no-man’s land that arouse inexplicable and other-worldly sensations, castellated abbeys fortified to shut out Death himself, pentagonal rooms that contain the history of sorrow, maelstroms and pits that conceal infernal depths, and Pym’s haunted ocean leading to quintessential blackness. To realize his fictional world, Poe refines away domestic manners and social nuance, blurs the line between the natural and the supernatural, and, in general, dissolves the delicate traceries of the actual. To James, all this was not only highly colored Gothicism but it had no structure of thought or deep feeling behind it. It is an instructive literary irony that the author of “The Jolly Corner,” the touching story of Spencer Brydon’s search for and flight from his alter ego, could not be moved by the mixed emotions of attraction and repulsion that William Wilson experiences toward his double. It is positively mystifying that the late-nineteenth-century master who narrated some of his best tales from the first-person point of view could not see his debt to Poe’s anguished and probing centers of consciousness in such masterpieces as “The Cask of Amontillado” and “Ligeia.”

Mas Henry James se tornou grande graças a essa distância que colocou entre si e Poe:

Yet — and it is a big “yet” — Poe was a part of James’s literary consciousness, a part of the native American tradition in which he had his roots. Poe’s works entered his literary bloodstream and became endemic to him. In tracing the development of his own social and aesthetic sensibility in A Small Boy and Others, James could recall that, in their earliest youth, he and his brother William recognized with their “small opening minds” the “predominant lustre” of Poe’s genius in such tales as “The Gold-Bug,” “The Pit and the Pendulum,” and “The Murders in the Rue Morgue.” He remembers “forever mounting on little platforms at our infant schools to ‘speak’ The Raven and Lenore and Annabel Lee,” and he maintains that “far from misprizing our ill-starred magician we acclaimed him surely at every turn; he lay upon our tables and resounded in our mouths, while we communed to satiety, 11) In his later, conscious literary career, James could feel free to borrow, revise, and, as he imagined, improve upon his fictional ancestor, but he could do so only after he had established that in Poe there was a fatal disjunction between manner and content — that in the truest sense there was only manner and no content at all.

Fonte: http://www.eapoe.org/papers/psbbooks/pb19901x.htm

E é preciso lembrar que William e Henry James são os mestres do estudo sobre a introspecção psicológica. Poe trata do impacto do sobrenatural sobre a psique. Para Henry, a psique vem em primeiro lugar pois ela é quem processa o efeito - como demonstrado na psicologia funcional de William.

EDIT: Editei mais, @Mavericco
 
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Estava aqui pensando: Spohr, Draccon, Vianco... Eles não têm um estilo próprio, identificável facilmente. (Talvez o Draccon tenha quando ele fala em benga dura e hadouken, mas tosqueiras à parte, não tem). Se a gente pedisse para os três caras escreverem a mesma história em forma de um conto, acho que eu não saberia dizer quem escreveu o quê. É um troço meio amorfo, difuso. É isso que me irrita mais.
 
Não compre. Não fira nem seus olhos nem seu cérebro com isso. Ninguém merece passar por isso - muito menos você. Cuide das suas filhas. Cuide dos seus livros. Mas não perca tempo com isso.
mas eu nem tava pensando em comprar @Bruce Torres !! eu, hein? tanta coisa melhor com que gastar meu dinheiro! :rofl: além do que, eu quero deixar uma biblioteca digna de herança pras minhas filhas! quero que elas leiam O Hobbit, O Pequeno Príncipe, Alice, Pollyana! :amor:
 
Ótimo. Continue assim, @Erendis .

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