• Caro Visitante, por que não gastar alguns segundos e criar uma Conta no Fórum Valinor? Desta forma, além de não ver este aviso novamente, poderá participar de nossa comunidade, inserir suas opiniões e sugestões, fazendo parte deste que é um maiores Fóruns de Discussão do Brasil! Aproveite e cadastre-se já!

Fósseis reais de Hobbits?

Bom, o meu lado, digamos, da razão, diz: "É claro que não são fósseis de hobbits, eles nunca existiram, a não ser nas páginas dos livros!" Mas o meu lado "tolkiendili" quer porque quer acreditar que aqueles são realmente fósseis de hobbits. Puxa, é legal pensar que eles poderiam ter de fato existido e que Tolkien, não sei como, soube de todas essas coisas que se passaram em eras longínquas e escreveu sobre isso...Viagem total, hehe, mas que não faz mal a ninguém. :obiggraz:

E a tal da Atlântida? Que Atlântida nada, é claro que é Númenor!
 
- Achamos Gondolin !!!!!! - era um buraco causado por um meteoro.
- Será que o Cristo redentor eh a estatua d isildur ? e ond anda o outro ?
- Gollum daqui a pouco terá sido encontrado em meio as lavas que cobriram pompeia...
 
Asegunda chama mais a atenção.Desculpa fugir um pouco do assunto mas é que lá em cima Orphen disse que iriam encontrar fosseis d enazguls,mas só lembrandu, pros novatus, eles ñ tinham ossos :mrgreen:
 
Talvez os hobbits sejam o elo perdido entre humanos e macacosHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Pode ser tbm que os elfos, com o seu poder sub-criativo, tenham criado uym foguete magico e se mudado de mala e cuia pra outra dimensão, pra ñ ter que aguentar a catastrofe que a galadriel previu"o novo SENHOR DO ESCURO, Jorge W. Bush.Agora chega que já ta começando a virar discussão politica :D :) :lol: :obiggraz:
 
Bem, o q eu acho eh simplismente q tudo isso eh um monte de baboseira q nós estamos discutindu, bem, prestem atenção como eh uma coisa altamente sem nexo...o cara ta lah catando fossel e encontra o fossel de um cara pequeno e simplismente fala pra imprensa q eh um hobbit por ele ser um viciado em Tokien como nós...e a imprensa ainda cobre pra ganhar dinheiro...isso eh uma calunia contra Tolkien!!! Estão usando a imaginação ótima dele pra botar em papo enganoso...
 
Orphen disse:
Bem, o q eu acho eh simplismente q tudo isso eh um monte de baboseira q nós estamos discutindu, bem, prestem atenção como eh uma coisa altamente sem nexo...o cara ta lah catando fossel e encontra o fossel de um cara pequeno e simplismente fala pra imprensa q eh um hobbit por ele ser um viciado em Tokien como nós...e a imprensa ainda cobre pra ganhar dinheiro...isso eh uma calunia contra Tolkien!!! Estão usando a imaginação ótima dele pra botar em papo enganoso...
Os pesquisadores não falaram que descobriram Hobbits. Eles apenas compararam a nova espécie do gênero Homo aos Hobbits de Tolkien.
Quem costuma fazer estardalhaço é a imprensa, principalmente a não especializada, que não entende merda alguma de ciência de verdade mas aproveita para fazer matérias que chamem a atenção de todo mundo.
 
Já li bastante sobre a descoberta de fósseis de hobbits, e sempre me perguntei, será que Tolkien sabia de algo parecido quando criou suas fantasias? Ou foram criadas somente de sua imaginação?
 
Já li bastante sobre a descoberta de fósseis de hobbits, e sempre me perguntei, será que Tolkien sabia de algo parecido quando criou suas fantasias? Ou foram criadas somente de sua imaginação?

Bom, segundo se conta nos livros e trabalhos sobre o autor há uma série de influências e inspirações usadas nas obras dele que bebem de fontes muito amplas de mitologia, ciência e religião. Por exemplo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._Tolkien's_influences

Dentro dos livros principais (SDA, OH, Silmarillion, Contos Inacabados) a origem deles tem muito poucos detalhes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbit
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Hobbits
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Hobbits

Fora dos livros existem referências pontuais a Etimologia da palavra Hobbit:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Hobbit

Hobbit (n.) dictionary.gif
1937, coined in the fantasy tales of J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973).On a blank leaf I scrawled: 'In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit.' I did not and do not know why. [Tolkien, letter to W.H. Auden, dated 1955]The word also turns up in a very long list of folkloric supernatural creatures in the writings of Michael Aislabie Denham (d.1859), printed in volume 2 of "The Denham Tracts" [ed. James Hardy, London: Folklore Society, 1895], a compilation of Denham's scattered publications. Denham was an early folklorist who concentrated on Northumberland, Durham, Westmoreland, Cumberland, the Isle of Man, and Scotland.What a happiness this must have been seventy or eighty years ago and upwards, to those chosen few who had the good luck to be born on the eve of this festival of all festivals; when the whole earth was so overrun with ghosts, boggles, bloody-bones, spirits, demons, ignis fatui, brownies, bugbears, black dogs, specters, shellycoats, scarecrows, witches, wizards, barguests, Robin-Goodfellows, hags, night-bats, scrags, breaknecks, fantasms, hobgoblins, hobhoulards, boggy-boes, dobbies, hob-thrusts, fetches, kelpies, warlocks, mock-beggars, mum-pokers, Jemmy-burties, urchins, satyrs, pans, fauns, sirens, tritons, centaurs, calcars, nymphs, imps, incubuses, spoorns, men-in-the-oak, hell-wains, fire-drakes, kit-a-can-sticks, Tom-tumblers, melch-dicks, larrs, kitty-witches, hobby-lanthorns, Dick-a-Tuesdays, Elf-fires, Gyl-burnt-tales, knockers, elves, rawheads, Meg-with-the-wads, old-shocks, ouphs, pad-foots, pixies, pictrees, giants, dwarfs, Tom-pokers, tutgots, snapdragons, sprets, spunks, conjurers, thurses, spurns, tantarrabobs, swaithes, tints, tod-lowries, Jack-in-the-Wads, mormos, changelings, redcaps, yeth-hounds, colt-pixies, Tom-thumbs, black-bugs, boggarts, scar-bugs, shag-foals, hodge-pochers, hob-thrushes, bugs, bull-beggars, bygorns, bolls, caddies, bomen, brags, wraiths, waffs, flay-boggarts, fiends, gallytrots, imps, gytrashes, patches, hob-and-lanthorns, gringes, boguests, bonelesses, Peg-powlers, pucks, fays, kidnappers, gallybeggars, hudskins, nickers, madcaps, trolls, robinets, friars' lanthorns, silkies, cauld-lads, death-hearses, goblins, hob-headlesses, bugaboos, kows, or cowes, nickies, nacks necks, waiths, miffies, buckies, ghouls, sylphs, guests, swarths, freiths, freits, gy-carlins Gyre-carling, pigmies, chittifaces, nixies, Jinny-burnt-tails, dudmen, hell-hounds, dopple-gangers, boggleboes, bogies, redmen, portunes, grants, hobbits, hobgoblins, brown-men, cowies, dunnies, wirrikows, alholdes, mannikins, follets, korreds, lubberkins, cluricauns, kobolds, leprechauns, kors, mares, korreds, puckles korigans, sylvans, succubuses, blackmen, shadows, banshees, lian-hanshees, clabbernappers, Gabriel-hounds, mawkins, doubles, corpse lights or candles, scrats, mahounds, trows, gnomes, sprites, fates, fiends, sibyls, nicknevins, whitewomen, fairies, thrummy-caps, cutties, and nisses, and apparitions of every shape, make, form, fashion, kind and description, that there was not a village in England that had not its own peculiar ghost. Nay, every lone tenement, castle, or mansion-house, which could boast of any antiquity had its bogle, its specter, or its knocker. The churches, churchyards, and crossroads were all haunted. Every green lane had its boulder-stone on which an apparition kept watch at night. Every common had its circle of fairies belonging to it. And there was scarcely a shepherd to be met with who had not seen a spirit![Emphasis added] It is curious that the name occurs nowhere else in folklore, and there is no evidence that Tolkien ever saw this. The word also was recorded from 1835 as "a term generally used in Wales to express a quantity made up of four Welsh pecks." Hobbitry attested from 1947.

Hobbit (word)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The invention of the word hobbit is traditionally ascribed to J. R. R. Tolkien, whose The Hobbit was first published in 1937. The Oxford English Dictionary since the 1970s has credited Tolkien with the invention of the word. Since then, however, it has been noted that there is prior evidence of the word, in a 19th-century list of legendary creatures. In 1971, Tolkien stated that he remembered making up the word himself, admitting that there was nothing but his "nude parole" to support the claim that he was uninfluenced by similar words of the hobgoblin family.



Contents
[hide]


Use by Tolkien

Proposed etymology

By Tolkien's own account, the coining of the name hobbit was a spontaneous flash of intuition. When he was busy grading examination papers, the word popped into his mind, not in isolation but as part of an entire sentence, which was to become the incipit of The Hobbit, "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit."[1]

Tolkien etymologized the name hobbit as the regular Modern English outcome of a hypothetical Old English *hol-bytla "hole builder". Within the linguistic fiction of The Lord of the Rings, the English etymology of Old English hol-bytlan → Modern English hobbit is the supposed translation of an "original" etymology of Rohirric kud-dukanWestron kuduk.

The hol-bytlan etymology notwithstanding, the name hobbit as designating a diminutive legendary creature fits seamlessly into a category of English words in hob- for such beings. The Middle English word hobbe has manifested in many creatures of folklore as the prefix hob-. Related words are: hob, hobby, hobgoblin, Hobberdy Dick, Hobberdy, Hobbaty, hobbidy, Hobley, hobbledehoy, hobble, hobi, hobyn (small horse), hobby horse (perhaps from Hobin), Hobin (variant of the name Robin), Hobby (nickname for Robert),hobyah, Hob Lantern.[2]

In William Shakespeare's play King Lear, (iv, i, 60), mention is made of "Hobbididence, prince of dumbness" in a list of diverse fiends, whose names Shakespeare borrowed from Samuel Harsnett's Declaration of Egregious Popish Impostures (1603).[3][4]

Tolkien's statements

On 16 January 1938, shortly after the original release of The Hobbit a letter by a Habit in the English paper The Observer asked if Tolkien's Hobbits were modelled after "'little furry men' seen in Africa by natives and … at least one scientist", and also referenced an old fairy tale called The Hobbit from 1904, but Tolkien denied using these sources as inspiration, and no trace of the African Hobbits or the fairy tale collection was ever found. Tolkien replied to this letter with:

"I do not remember anything about the name and inception of the hero… I have no waking recollection of furry pigmies (in book or moonlight); nor of any Hobbit bogey in print by 1904. I suspect that the two hobbits are accidental homophones, and am content that they are not synonymous. And I protest that my hobbit did not live in Africa, and was not furry, except about the feet. Nor indeed was he a rabbit…."
In 1970 the Oxford Dictionary wrote to Professor Tolkien asking for the origins of the word, as they wished to include 'Hobbit' in the dictionary. Tolkien replied:

"For the moment this is held up, because I am having the matter of the etymology: 'Invented by J. R. R. Tolkien': investigated by experts. I knew that the claim was not clear, but I had not troubled to look into it, until faced by the inclusion of hobbit in the Supplement."
In the event Hobbit was fully ascribed to Tolkien, as no earlier source was found.

hobbit n. one of an imaginary race of half-sized persons in stories by Tolkien; hence ~RY (5) n. [invented by J.R.R. Tolkien, Engl. writer d. 1973, and said by him to mean 'hole-builder']

The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Current English
In 1971 Tolkien once again referred to his "invention":

"The Ox. E. D. has in preparation of its Second Supplement got to Hobbit, which it proposes to include together with its progeny: hobbitry, -ish, etc. I have had, therefore, to justify my claim to have invented the word. My claim rests really on my 'nude parole' or unsupported assertion that I remember the occasion of its invention (by me); and that I had not then any knowledge of Hobberdy, Hobbaty, Hobberdy Dick etc. (for 'house-sprites')†; and that my 'hobbits' were in any case of wholly dissimilar sort, a diminutive branch of the human race.
"† I have now! Probably more than most other folk; and find myself in a v. tangled wood—the clue to which is, however, the belief in incubi and 'changelings'. Alas! one conclusion is that the statement that hobgoblins were 'a larger kind' is the reverse of the original truth. (The statement occurs in the preliminary note on Runes devised for the paperback edition, but now included by A & U in all edns.)"
Evidence of earlier use
The only source known today that makes reference to hobbits in any sort of historical context is the Denham Tracts by Michael Aislabie Denham. More specifically, it appears in the Denham Tracts, edited by James Hardy, (London: Folklore Society, 1895), vol. 2, the second part of a two-volume set compiled from Denham's publications between 1846 and 1859.

The text contains a long list of sprites and bogies, based on an older list, the Discovery of Witchcraft, dated 1584, with many additions and a few repetitions. The term hobbit is listed in the context of "boggleboes, bogies, redmen, portunes, grants, hobbits, hobgoblins, brown-men, cowies, dunnies".

Tolkien researcher Mark T. Hooker catalogs a number of words with a silhouette similar to hobbit, including:

  • hobit (a type of artillery piece)
  • hōbid (Old Saxon: head)
  • hobaid (Old Welsh unit of measure)
  • hobet (Falco subbuteo)
  • habit (the allegorical meaning of the name of a character of a Welsh fable: Hanner Dyn; literally: Half Man)
  • Hobith (the name of one of the “home gods” in The Gods of Pegāna by Lord Dunsany)
Hooker fails to find any of them “an unambiguous source for the Hobbits of Middle-earth.”[5]

In the December 2003 Oxford English Dictionary newsletter, the following appears:[6]

"4. hobbit — J. R. R. Tolkien modestly claimed not to have coined this word, although the Supplement to the OED credited him with the invention of it in the absence of further evidence. It seems, however, that Tolkien was right to be cautious. It has since turned up in one of those 19th-century folklore journals, in a list of long-forgotten words for fairy-folk or little people. It seems likely that Tolkien, with his interest in folklore, read this and subconsciously registered the name, reviving it many years later in his most famous character. [Editor's note: although revision of the OED's entry for hobbit will of course take this evidence for earlier use into account, it does not yet appear in the online version of the entry.]"

As of 8 Nov 2012 the entry "has not yet been fully updated" in OED Online version September 2012.[7]

See also[edit]
20px-Tom_Sawyer_1876_frontispiece.jpg Children's literature portal
References[edit]
Notes
  1. Jump up^ Carpenter, Humphrey (1977). Tolkien: The Authorized Biography. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Co. p. 172.
  2. Jump up^ c.f. yourdictionary.com, based on OED.[dead link]
  3. Jump up^ Bevington, David, ed. (1988). The Complete Works of William Shakespeare. 5 "King Lear: Shakespeare's sources". Bantam Books.
  4. Jump up^ Muir, Kenneth (ed.). King Lear. Arden Shakespeare. pp. 253–256.
  5. Jump up^ Hooker, Mark T. (2014). The Tolkienaeum. Llyfrawr. pp. 55–74.
  6. Jump up^ Simpson, John (December 2003). "Words of choice: a selection of words with unusual origins". Oxford English Dictionary December 2003 newsletter. Archived from the original on 17 May 2008. Retrieved 21 June 2012.
  7. Jump up^ http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/87449
General references
External links[edit]
37px-Wiktionary-logo-en.svg.png Look up hobbit in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

Num sentido que extrapola a criação da palavra sabe-se com certeza que Tolkien fora um escritor muito "antenado" com o que ocorria nas descobertas científicas e na literatura e espiritualismo e usava tudo o que podia de sua bagagem desde o "little people" até notícias e estudos sobre povos em regiões de alimentos escassos.
 
:ʋ ɢɛռtɛ ɛssa ɛʊ ռɛʍ saɮɨa
Mas atɛ a ċɨêռċɨa ɢօsta ɖɛ Tօʟҡɨɛռ ҡҡҡ :beer::lol:
 

Valinor 2023

Total arrecadado
R$2.434,79
Termina em:
Back
Topo