Cajado do Radagast

[Arwen-aragorn]

estava assistindo Uma Jornada Inesperada pela centesima vez uahsuha e queria saber qual é o nome daquela pedra que o radagast tira do cajado dele e salva aquele ''bichinho'' . valew!

 

[Grimnir]

Oi @Arwen-aragorn, seja bem vinda. Acho que aquela pedra não tem nome, sendo apenas uma invenção de Peter Jackson.

 

[Arwen-aragorn]

Hmm obrigada , é que eu ainda nao li o livro O Hobbit estou lendo silmarillion ainda

 

[Lobelia SB]

No mundo dos filmes:

Radagast's staff is fashioned from an upturned sapling and fits perfectly to his rustic personality. He uses his staff to battle The Witch King and to help the forests of Middle Earth blossom. The blue crystal embedded in the crown has magical healing powers which are able to heal the dying. Radagast looses his staff in an unexplained plotline, as his staff eventually comes to Gandalf the Grey.

 

[Éomer]

Essa joia na corrente aí é o que @Lobelia SB ?

 

[Lobelia SB]

Cristal azul, a mesma pedra do cajado

 

[Éomer]

Mas o do cajado é verde. Aliás, tenho um puta problema com alguns tons de verde e azul hehehe.

 

[Grimnir]

Eu não sei se esse assunto é velho, mas vi pela primeira vez agora no Facebook e achei interessante: Numa conversa sobre se o cajado de Gandalf em OSdA é o cajado de Radagast, disseram que Gandalf pode ter mais de um cajado e a prova disso é que no filme Saruman rouba o cajado dele e depois o mago cinzento aparece com um novo cajado em Valfenda.

Realmente esse é um ponto válido. Fui pesquisar e encontrei duas passagem que mudam totalmente essa "incoerência":

They took me and they set me alone on the pinnacle of Orthanc, in the place where Saruman was accustomed to watch the stars. There is no descent save by a narrow stair of many thousand steps, and the valley below seems far away. I looked on it and saw that, whereas it had once been green and fair, it was now filled with pits and forges. Wolves and orcs were housed in Isengard, for Saruman was mustering a great force on his own account, in rivalry of Sauron and not in his service yet. Over all his works a dark smoke hung and wrapped itself about the sides of Orthanc. I stood alone on an island in the clouds; and I had no chance of escape, and my days were bitter. I was pierced with cold, and I had but little room in which to pace to and fro, brooding on the coming of the Riders to the North.

Quando Gandalf fala sobre o aprisionamento em Orthanc, ele não diz nada sobre perder o cajado. Além disso, segundo sonhos de Frodo na casa de Bombadil...

In the dead night, Frodo lay in a dream without light. Then he saw the young moon rising; under its thin light there loomed before him a black wall of rock, pierced by a dark arch like a great gate. It seemed to Frodo that he was lifted up, and passing over he saw that the rock-wall was a circle of hills, and that within it was a plain, and in the midst of the plain stood a pinnacle of stone, like a vast tower but not made by hands. On its top stood the figure of a man. The moon as it rose seemed to hang for a moment above his head and glistened in his white hair as the wind stirred it. Up from the dark plain below came the crying of fell voices, and the howling of many wolves. Suddenly a shadow, like the shape of great wings, passed across the moon. The figure lifted his arms and a light flashed from the staff that he wielded. A mighty eagle swept down and bore him away. The voices wailed and the wolves yammered. There was a noise like a strong wind blowing, and on it was borne the sound of hoofs, galloping, galloping, galloping from the East. ‘Black Riders!’ thought Frodo as he wakened, with the sound of the hoofs still echoing in his mind. He wondered if he would ever again have the courage to leave the safety of these stone walls. He lay motionless, still listening; but all was now silent, and at last he turned and fell asleep again or wandered into some other unremembered dream.

Ao que tudo indica, Gandalf estava com o seu cajado em Orthanc. A conclusão é que existe uma inconsistência no primeiro filme.

 

[Elendil]

Eu já havia percebido isso. Como Gandalf consegue outro cajado e exatamente igual ao que Saruman havia "confiscado"? Mesmo em O Retorno do Rei isso acontece. Se levarmos em conta a versão estendida, o Rei-Bruxo quebrou o cajado dele (nada a ver essa cena, mas... fazer o quê?!), mas nos Portos Cinzentos, lá está Gandalf com seu cajado branco.

 

[Grimnir]

São incoerências dos filmes, né? A própria importância do cajado é algo estranho: Saruman captura o cajado de Gandalf, deixando-o indefeso; Gandal explode o cajado de Saruman, deixando-o indefeso; o Rei Bruxo explode o cajado de Gandalf, deixando-o indefeso. Só que: Gandalf recupera duas vezes os cajados perdidos.

Ora, se o cajado é algo tão poderoso assim, como que Gandalf consegue recuperar duas vezes com aparente facilidade?

Enfim...

 

[Elendil]

Sim, não acredito nessa de Gandalf ter mais de um cajado (onde fica guardado o reserva? ) Ah, e no artigo do TheOneRing sobre spoilers do Hobbit 3, o que dá a entender é que o Gandalf deve receber mesmo o cajado do Radagast.

Spoiler

Gandalf receives Radagast’s staff
A confirmation of a long-standing fan theory by WETA staff at Denver Comic Con via Ringer Alamoknight.

I spent a lot of time at the Weta booth. So I thought I would ask them if they would be producing another staff for Gandalf since his was destroyed by Sauron in the second film. They told me a theory by some fans was correct. They staff that Gandalf has in Moria is in fact Radagast’s staff. They told me that Gandalf will get Radagast’s staff at some point during the third Hobbit movie.

The photo of Gandalf riding Big Nick across the Ruapehu desert from the 2012 13-minute Hobbit special seems to confirm this. Ringer Alamoknight also adds the following clarification:

So after purchasing Radagast’s staff from the Weta Booth at Denver Comic Con, among the people at the Weta booth at DCC was Peter Lyons, master weaponsmith from the movies. Once I realized who he was I began talking to Peter about the staff. During the conversation I asked him if Weta would be producing a new staff for Gandalf since his is destroyed in DOS. At this point in the conversation he tells me something to this effect:

“Well this is some spoilerish info but at some point during movie three Gandalf will get Radagast’s staff”. He also pointed out that some of the branches probably became worn after the third movie and that is why it looks slightly different when Gandalf is in Moria. He also told me that if they did produce a new staff for Gandalf it would essentially be Radagast’s except the crystal wouldn’t be there, he said maybe they would add Gandalf’s pipe or something. At that point he showed me where in Radagast’s staff that Gandalf’s pipe would go. It’s already built in!

Now this revelation does not clear up the fact that the staff that Gandalf has at the beginning of the Fellowship is also different. When I was talking to Peter Lyons about Weta producing a new staff, I thought he would tell me about that one (the one at the beginning of Fellowship). The info about Radagast’s staff was very happy and unexpected bonus!

Source: Ringer alamoknight.

Ringer Valdis Nelijus points to visual counter-evidence from Production Diary #11 at 8 mins and 50 secs. Gandalf is in a snowy scene (possibly Dale), and he is obviously carrying his old, original staff.

Additionally, Ringer Vinícius Vyller supplies the following comparison images of Gandalf’s staff in The Fellowship of the Ring, versus Radagast’s staff. I’m presenting them here without comment, although I will draw attention to Peter Lyon’s words as reported by Alamoknight some of the branches probably became worn after the third movie and that is why it looks slightly different when Gandalf is in Moria. I think this one still has a fair way to run.

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/201...bbit-the-battle-of-the-five-armies/#gandagast​

Eu só não entendi essas imagens do Gandalf em Valle usando o cajado que já foi quebrado.

 

[Grimnir]

Eu só não entendi essas imagens do Gandalf em Valle usando o cajado que já foi quebrado.

A gente nunca sabe a ordem de filmagem das cenas. Talvez essas cenas finais tenham sido filmadas antes da ideia de Radagast dar o cajado para Gandalf. Aliás, essa cena dos bastidores parece ser a mesma que mostra Gandalf (com o cajado original) e Thranduil. Nós sabemos bem que PJ não tem nenhuma vergonha de mudar um monte de coisa de última hora: Vide a mudançã do visual de Bolg e a decisão de tirar Azog da invasão a Mirkwood (no segundo filme).

Continuo com a teoria de que essa cena de Gandalf em Dale é velha e que Radagast, depois de ajudar no ataque a Dol Guldur, vai desistir da missão de Istari e entregar seu cajado para Gandalf. Radagast vai então viver com os animais, isolado de tudo e todos, e teremos, finalmente, alguma coerência com os livros.

 

[rorre]

Uma duvida:
O cajado de uma mago tem utilidade de canalizar o poder do mago para ele soltar seus feitiços, lembro que PJ certa vez falou que não gostava da ideia de magos saltando feitiços pelas mãos, então o que impediria que o Gandalf fizesse outro cajado, já que o seu poder esta nele e não no cajado?????

 

[Grimnir]

Uma duvida:
O cajado de uma mago tem utilidade de canalizar o poder do mago para ele soltar seus feitiços, lembro que PJ certa vez falou que não gostava da ideia de magos saltando feitiços pelas mãos, então o que impediria que o Gandalf fizesse outro cajado, já que o seu poder esta nele e não no cajado?????

Acho meio difícil essa pergunta. Considerando os livros, nesse momento eu só lembro mesmo de uma passagem que revela a importância dos cajados:

Ergueu a mão e falou lentamente, numa voz límpida e fria. - Saruman, seu cajado está quebrado. - Houve um estalido, o cajado se partiu em pedaços, e sua parte superior caiu aos pés de Gandalf - Vá! - disse Gandalf Com um grito. Saruman caiu para trás e foi embora se arrastando.