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A Forum of Ice and Fire → A Song of Ice and Fire: The Novels → General (ASoIaF)
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Influense
Started by Jaime Hill/Waters, Aug 17 2008 03:24 PM
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15 replies to this topic
#1 Jaime Hill/Waters
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Posted 17 August 2008 - 03:24 PM
GRRM has say that he enjoy very mutsh Tad serie Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. He also say that then he want write something similar.
There it come.
The Dragonbone Chair=The Iron Trone and dragonskuls., very similar and I remember that somewere GRRM say that he got this idea from Tad serie.
Prince Josua. He was saved in the dungeon but GRRM seems to think that it is better kill Ned, it is more effektive. Then another similar charagter get his blase and it is Jaime. They all share similar mind and honor.
Simon and Arya saw very similar discussion in they dungeon break.
Tads Red priest and Georges Red priest. Tads was pure evil and I think that so are Georges too. And both Red Priest are wery manipulative.
Elia = Mad King and Stannis. Lots of similaties. Elia are mad like Aerys and Stannis and Elia are both in Red Pries manipulative.
Princess Miriamele are very similar then Dany, Arya and Sansa. Sansa are so lady and so are Miriamela, and bouth have similar bad experiences. Miriamela and Arya both feign to a boy. Miriemela, Sansa and Dany are all heirs.
Lyanna, Rhaegar and Robert love triangle = Josuas and Elias mother, that knight who are Josuas real father and John Prespyter love triangle = Guenewere, Lancelot and Arthur love triangle = Helena, Paris, Menelaos love triangle. Same story, another panties.
Memory, Sorrow and Thorn = Ice, Dawn, Light Bringer ets. Meybe when Ice and Fire meet result are same kind then Tads storys sword meeting.
Simon Snowlock are very silmilar then Jon Snow. Bouth are secreth scion to realm.
League of the Scroll and they pigeons are very similar then maesters and they crows.
Binabik = lot like Tyrion. Bouth are dwarfs and wery samarts. But Tyrion is influenced also that dwarf on England court in the time of queen Elisabeth.
There are even more similarities but I dont recall them all now.
P.S Cersei and Lannisters. Katariina de' Medici and Medisi house. Irene of Athens a Byzantine empress and hers Nikephoros as finance minister and eunuch Staurakios share similaries to Cersei, Litlefinger and Varys.
modified from clarify
Edited by Jaime Hill/Waters, 17 August 2008 - 04:28 PM.
#2 Kahryl
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Posted 17 August 2008 - 04:52 PM
Don't forget the Red Keep having a huge maze-dungeon below it. Even trying to explore one tower caused people to vanish into the maze.
I'm still waiting for GRRM to try writing a chapter that's a pure solo dungeon crawl done over days. Memory-Sorrow-Thorn had like 3 of those and they were my favorites.
#3 Lady Blackfish
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Posted 17 August 2008 - 05:07 PM
GRRM even has a Josua and Elias IIRC, or he uses some modification of the names.
I do remember him saying how MS&T re-invigorated the epic fantasy but he also has quite a few differences to Williams' more straightforward dynamics.
#4 Le_Saboteur
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Posted 18 August 2008 - 02:40 AM
Jaime Hill/Waters, on Aug 18 2008, 08.24, said:
Binabik = lot like Tyrion. Bouth are dwarfs and wery samarts. But Tyrion is influenced also that dwarf on England court in the time of queen Elisabeth.
I think you might be looking a bit much into it (characters such as Miriamele/Dany/Arya/Sansa are all pretty standard characters in fantasy), but I can see where you're coming from in most cases. The part I quoted, though- two characters couldn't be more different. The whole background of Binabik (you know, they're a race, not just... short Erkynlanders or whatever) is completely different, and he's actually a happy (if odd), trusting, relatively forward person. Tyrion is none of those.
#5 Alexandair
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Posted 18 August 2008 - 03:44 AM
I read MSaT before aSoIaF and i did notice a few similarities and influences as i went through the books but i think you're reading into too many things. Nearly every fantasy novel will share certain traits! I have to share Le_Saboteur's point about Binabik and Tyrion, where as Tyrion is shown to have a disability the trolls in MSaT far from lacking in physical skill! (gotta love those ram mounts). I did think when the red priests were introduced into aSoIaF that is was a homage of sorts but who can know for sure
#6 Jaime Hill/Waters
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Posted 18 August 2008 - 09:29 AM
Alexandair and Le_Saboteur. Yes. Tyrion and Binabik indeed are not the same. But boint was that Tyrion is influensed with Binabik. In fantasy are lots of dwarfs but not so many those who use they brain.
#7 It is Known
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Posted 18 August 2008 - 10:19 AM
We can even use these similarites to create exciting new crackpot theories.
In Tad Williams trilogy the hero from the past who fights with the sword made out of a meteor is found in a weird town built on a swamp.
Ned mentions he was saved from hero from the past who fights with the sword made out of a meteor by Howland Reed. Howland Reeds daughter fights with a net, and mentions she was taught how to do so by her father.
Conclusion: Howland Reed threw a net over Arthur Dayne and dragged him back to Greywater reach (weird town built on a swamp) where he will be found later on in the story!
You heard it here first kids!*
*Poster does not necessarily believe his own rambling madness, but has to keep self amused somehow until ADwD turns up.
Edited by It is Known, 18 August 2008 - 10:21 AM.
#8 Jaime Hill/Waters
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Posted 18 August 2008 - 03:49 PM
WOW
I start this topic for a reason. I allways think what are influensed GRRM to do something. If I know that Cersei are like Irine of Athens or Katariina de' Medici then I can guess what she do next. Meybe something similar then character who is influense to create Cersei.
Quote
Conclusion: Howland Reed threw a net over Arthur Dayne and dragged him back to Greywater reach (weird town built on a swamp) where he will be found later on in the story!
This is something that I can believe to happen. Remember that guy name is ARTHUR and we have hear wery little about he and Eddard think that he was best knight ever.
#9 Raff the Sweetling
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Posted 18 August 2008 - 06:08 PM
There may be some similarities, but lets not forget the fact that compared to ASoIaf, Memory, Sorrow and Thorn is a turd. I liked the books overall, but making it through the first 400 pages of Dragonbone chair was mind numbing. Nothing against Tad Williams, but his books are rather childish in comparison. I know there are some references used by Martin, and probably some ideas, but most of these similarities are really grasping at straws to find a connection.
#10 It is Known
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Posted 18 August 2008 - 06:34 PM
Oh and in Memory Sorrow & Thorn theres a bad guy, Ingen Jagger, who wears a dog helmet.
Lets not forget that compared to ASoIaf, Memory, Sorrow and Thorn are still really good books.
Edited by It is Known, 18 August 2008 - 06:36 PM.
#11 Raff the Sweetling
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Posted 18 August 2008 - 07:13 PM
Jaime Hill/Waters, on Aug 17 2008, 16.24, said:
GRRM has say that he enjoy very mutsh Tad serie Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. He also say that then he want write something similar.
There it come.
The Dragonbone Chair=The Iron Trone and dragonskuls., very similar and I remember that somewere GRRM say that he got this idea from Tad serie.
Dragon bone = Iron Throne?
Jaime Hill/Waters, on Aug 17 2008, 16.24, said:
Prince Josua. He was saved in the dungeon but GRRM seems to think that it is better kill Ned, it is more effektive. Then another similar charagter get his blase and it is Jaime. They all share similar mind and honor.
Prince Joshua was killed, but Ned wasnt. Almost Identical!
Jaime Hill/Waters, on Aug 17 2008, 16.24, said:
Simon and Arya saw very similar discussion in they dungeon break.
Teenage boy in a dungeon, Teenage girl in a dungeon. Creepy similar. (was she?)
Jaime Hill/Waters, on Aug 17 2008, 16.24, said:
Tads Red priest and Georges Red priest. Tads was pure evil and I think that so are Georges too. And both Red Priest are wery manipulative.
Tads red priest was pure evil. I think Georges are too? Thoros that evil manipulator.
Jaime Hill/Waters, on Aug 17 2008, 16.24, said:
Elia = Mad King and Stannis. Lots of similaties. Elia are mad like Aerys and Stannis and Elia are both in Red Pries manipulative.
Princess Miriamele are very similar then Dany, Arya and Sansa. Sansa are so lady and so are Miriamela, and bouth have similar bad experiences. Miriamela and Arya both feign to a boy. Miriemela, Sansa and Dany are all heirs.
Miriamela is ladylike like Sansa, pretented to be a boy like Arya, and is like Dany because all 4 are princesses. Straight up Plagerism!!!
Jaime Hill/Waters, on Aug 17 2008, 16.24, said:
Lyanna, Rhaegar and Robert love triangle = Josuas and Elias mother, that knight who are Josuas real father and John Prespyter love triangle = Guenewere, Lancelot and Arthur love triangle = Helena, Paris, Menelaos love triangle. Same story, another panties.
=Every love triangle in literary history.
Jaime Hill/Waters, on Aug 17 2008, 16.24, said:
Memory, Sorrow and Thorn = Ice, Dawn, Light Bringer ets. Meybe when Ice and Fire meet result are same kind then Tads storys sword meeting.
Magic swords? No way Martin came up with that on his own.
Jaime Hill/Waters, on Aug 17 2008, 16.24, said:
Simon Snowlock are very silmilar then Jon Snow. Bouth are secreth scion to realm.
Just like Aragorn! Tolkein stole it too!
Jaime Hill/Waters, on Aug 17 2008, 16.24, said:
League of the Scroll and they pigeons are very similar then maesters and they crows.
Using birds for messages. That clinches it, Martins a theif.
Jaime Hill/Waters, on Aug 17 2008, 16.24, said:
Binabik = lot like Tyrion. Bouth are dwarfs and wery samarts. But Tyrion is influenced also that dwarf on England court in the time of queen Elisabeth.
Smart dwarfs. There is no excuse for that.
Jaime Hill/Waters, on Aug 17 2008, 16.24, said:
There are even more similarities but I dont recall them all now.
P.S Cersei and Lannisters. Katariina de' Medici and Medisi house. Irene of Athens a Byzantine empress and hers Nikephoros as finance minister and eunuch Staurakios share similaries to Cersei, Litlefinger and Varys.
modified from clarify
HUH?
And in MS&T there are Humans, dwarves, elves that come together for a common cause. Geez that sounds familiar. How many books have that combo. Again, I like Tad Williams, but I can find similarities in 90 percent of the fantasy I have every read. Put any two fantasy books side by side, and they will have similarities.
Edited by Raff the Sweetling, 18 August 2008 - 07:16 PM.
#12 Jaime Hill/Waters
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Posted 18 August 2008 - 09:21 PM
Quote
And in MS&T there are Humans, dwarves, elves that come together for a common cause. Geez that sounds familiar. How many books have that combo. Again, I like Tad Williams, but I can find similarities in 90 percent of the fantasy I have every read. Put any two fantasy books side by side, and they will have similarities.
Yes yes. You dont see same similarities and obvious influense then I and you get this like joke. But my point was that it is obvious where GRRM get his influense to start of the series. He has praise MSaT and LotR but have nothin good to say to bulk of fantasy series.
And I only mean Melisandra not Thoros when I was speaking to that Red Priest. Meybe you catch it, or maybe not. Only for verify.
#13 Raff the Sweetling
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Posted 19 August 2008 - 02:50 PM
I get it, I was just being a smart ass. I know it was a big influence.
#14 Vendetto
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Posted 11 November 2008 - 11:58 PM
Very interesting thread.
#15 Naknakkus
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Posted 12 November 2008 - 04:45 AM
Jaime Hill/Waters, on Aug 17 2008, 20.24, said:
Binabik = lot like Tyrion. Bouth are dwarfs and wery samarts. But Tyrion is influenced also that dwarf on England court in the time of queen Elisabeth.
I don't know. I think Tyrion was more modelled on a cross between Tycho Brahe, the dwarf he employed as a jester, and his elk, which died after drunkenly falling down some stairs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tycho_Brahe#T...s_elk_and_dwarf
It's worth noting that he was very rich, a genius, and he lost his nose in a duel. Brahe, not the elk.
His name even begins with 'Ty'.
Edited by Naknakkus, 12 November 2008 - 04:53 AM.
#16 TrueMetis
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Posted 09 June 2009 - 09:40 PM
"rubs eyes" does this mean that hodors gonna stop being simple and become the greatest knight in the realm (which means he gets to wield Dawn)
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