This summer dna suggested that Faramir and the Rangers of Ithilien were based on Robin Hood and his Merry Men.
We do know this of Tolkien as a child: “He did not enjoy Treasure Island . . . But he liked Red Indian stories and longed to shoot with a bow and arrow.” – Tolkien: A Biography, by Humphrey Carpenter, p. 22.
Perhaps dna is on the right track after all!
squire: C. Do you see anything of the medieval legend of Robin Hood in Faramir and his Rangers? Do you see anything of “Red Indian” stories (i.e., 18th and 19th century stories of American Indians such as those told by Fenimore Cooper) in this episode? Do you see anything of the woodcrafty Boers ambushing arrogant British convoys under the hot southern sun, in the years of Tolkien’s childhood?
fireandshadow: faramir as robin hood That would make Sauron prince John, and Aragorn a kind of King Richard. Imagine faramir and aragorn in tights!
an seleichan: forever spoiled by TH White and his "dark and stilly womb of night", in the woods with Robin, Arthur and Kay as they get ready for battle. And since I read Once and Future King a million times prior to reading LOTR, I always tended to get the two scenes a little confused.
I can see Faramir as Robin in the casual leadership, in the woodslore, and in the clothing. But nothing about Faramir is very similar to Robin, at least Robin a la OAFK, which was my only exposure. Except for Ivanhoe, but I've not read that for decades now.
Still, there is so much similarity between the Robin of old English tales and the Faramir of LOTR in place setting and clothing, and leadership of a small band of men...it has to have some significance.
Now, what's even weirder is the phrase "dark and stilly womb of night", which is one of those vivid word-pictures that I tend to remember all my life like song lyrics: where does it come from?
Since I'm not really a scholar but just play one in the RR
, I've had to figure this out for myself. For many years, I thought TH White made up the word "stilly", but as I read more, (and also, as I cheated and looked it up in the OED), I realized it was an old word. And lo and behold!
Shakespeare: Henry V, Act 4, prologue:
"Now entertain conjecture of a time
When creeping murmur and the poring dark
Fills the wide vessel of the universe.
From camp to camp, through the foul womb of night,
The hum of either army stilly sounds,
That the fix'd sentinels almost receive
The secret whispers of each other's watch."
And enter King Harry:
"O, now, who will behold
The royal captain of this ruin'd band
Walking from watch to watch, from tent to tent,
Let him cry 'Praise and glory on his head!'
For forth he goes and visits all his host;
Bids them good morrow with a modest smile,
And calls them brothers, friends, and countrymen.
Upon his royal face there is no note
How dread an army hath enrounded him;
Nor doth he dedicate one jot of colour
Unto the weary and all-watched night;
But freshly looks, and over-bears attaint
With cheerful semblance and sweet majesty;
That every wretch, pining and pale before,
Beholding him, plucks comfort from his looks"
Harry and his band of brothers do also somewhat remind me of Faramir and his crew.
I think there was a lot of this kind of stuff in Tolkien's mind when he wrote of the band of soldiers dressed in green and brown in the woods, quiet, surrounded by foes.
Kimi: Oft in the stilly night "Stilly" immediately made me think of the song by Thomas Moore:
Oft in the stilly night
Ere slumber´s chains have bound me,
Fond memory brings the light
Of other days around me.
The smiles, the tears of boyhood years
The words of love then spoken,
The eyes that shone, now dimmed and gone,
The cheerful hearts now broken.
Thus in the stilly night
Ere slumber´s chain has bound me
Fond memory brings the light
Of other days around me.
When I remember all
The friends so linked together,
I´ve seen around me fall,
Like leaves in wintery weather
I feel like one who treads alone
Some banquet hall deserted
Whose lights are fled, whose garlands dead
And all but he departed.
Is there any way I can make this on-topic?
an seleichan: Tolkien liked archaic words There! on-topic!
Thanks for that, I admit to not remembering that, if I ever read it...although it is in one of my poetry books upstairs. Darn!
And I didn't mean to imply that Shakespeare was the only user, either (I don't know enough on the subject of old words to comment, really). I was trying to make a connection between Robin Hood, Faramir, and King Henry and his "band of brothers". I was, in short, rambling.
Rambling is not necessarily off topic, though, and leads to lots of interesting sidelines...
a.s. (off to look for more examples of stilly night!)
dernwyn: Faramir and the Rangers: men in tight places...
Both the Ithilien Ranges and Robin Hood's men know the advantages of using camouflage with guerilla tactics. Tolkien may have had this particular English legend in the back of his mind; but the two groups have dissimilar agendas, and I'd say the Rangers are more akin to WWI warfare, ground troops trying to protect the errant locals from a foray at hand.
(But I did show that "Shrek" takeoff to my kids, who hastened groaning from the room...)